tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18101458.post7231741927298472354..comments2024-02-16T15:14:36.719-06:00Comments on Wet Noodle Posse: Distinguish yourself with dialogueMJFredrickhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06881706931355203700noreply@blogger.comBlogger41125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18101458.post-27108987967093821492007-10-30T12:15:00.000-05:002007-10-30T12:15:00.000-05:00That's the second reference to "Self-Editing For F...That's the second reference to "Self-Editing For Fiction Writers" I've seen in the last 3 days, so I'm taking that as a sign and buying it! I went to a Stephanie Bond workshop this past weekend and she also recommended it. <BR/><BR/>Margaret MAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18101458.post-28087048368490628182007-10-30T11:28:00.000-05:002007-10-30T11:28:00.000-05:00Diane: That's because Regency Rakes aren't geeks. ...Diane: That's because Regency Rakes aren't geeks. ;)Esri Rosehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00912657945785764363noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18101458.post-72401694940534685652007-10-30T07:53:00.000-05:002007-10-30T07:53:00.000-05:00janegeorge, I hope some of our historical authors ...janegeorge, I hope some of our historical authors will respond to your question. While I love reading historical romance, I'd be useless to judge or advise on it. That said, I can see you probably will have to affect a dialect for your heroine when she's in disguise. Good luck!Norah Wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01151103954061826427noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18101458.post-64360560978823664742007-10-30T07:49:00.000-05:002007-10-30T07:49:00.000-05:00Delle said:'He would never say, "I love that shade...Delle said:<BR/>'He would never say, "I love that shade of red on you." He'd say, "That looks good. Buy it." Naturally, I do what he says."'<BR/><BR/>LOL, Delle! That's an absolutely perfect example of guy speak.Norah Wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01151103954061826427noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18101458.post-82805970968986417662007-10-30T07:17:00.000-05:002007-10-30T07:17:00.000-05:00Doglady, I don't know if there's such a thing as t...Doglady, I don't know if there's such a thing as too much dialogue! I know some readers who skim narrative to get to the next bit of dialogue. Of course, it could take a long time to tell a story with just dialogue, because it would unfold in real time. ,-) You need narrative passages to make transitions, bridge time passage, summarize intervening events and so forth. I think the best recipe is a good mix of both. If you reduce the zoom on your viewer in Word to 25% or even 10%, you can readily discern dialogue from narrative and get a feel for the balance.Norah Wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01151103954061826427noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18101458.post-46247338875467116272007-10-29T23:32:00.000-05:002007-10-29T23:32:00.000-05:00Great exercises, thanks!I'm a bit worried about th...Great exercises, thanks!<BR/><BR/>I'm a bit worried about the dialogue in my entry because it's a historical paranormal. <BR/><BR/>I realize my ms will be in the minority amongst mostly contemporary entries. Any advice for being correct as far as 1812 England forms of address, but not turning off judges who like contemporary paranormals with the milords and such?<BR/><BR/>AND I have a couple of pages where my heroine is in disquise as a Cornish peasant. I HAVE to have her speech change. It's giving me fits.<BR/><BR/>Any and all words of wisdom appreciated!<BR/><BR/>PS Thanks so much for dedicating October to the GH.Jane Georgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03199994711829637247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18101458.post-41984567067547831872007-10-29T22:56:00.000-05:002007-10-29T22:56:00.000-05:00Dialogue is my favorite part too. My CP pulls her...Dialogue is my favorite part too. My CP pulls her hair reading my first drafts because they are so often nothing but dialogue. But I fill in from there.<BR/><BR/>I use Charity's method when I had to write a German Count. It was easy for me, though, because I studied some German and my brother lived in Germany for so long, he almost forgot how to speak English. I modeled the sentence structure after his voice.<BR/><BR/>I often model men after my husband, although I think he often takes Guy-Speak to an extreme. He would never say, "I love that shade of red on you." He'd say, "That looks good. Buy it." Naturally, I do what he says.Delle Jacobshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09551688823035092802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18101458.post-45543763356015426282007-10-29T22:49:00.000-05:002007-10-29T22:49:00.000-05:00Another tidbit from Self-Editing for Fiction Write...Another tidbit from Self-Editing for Fiction Writers about speaker attributions: "The reason those well-intentioned attempts at variety don't work is that verbs other than "said" tend to draw attention away from the dialogue."Theresa Raganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15815320170046221853noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18101458.post-79800142557876868062007-10-29T22:26:00.000-05:002007-10-29T22:26:00.000-05:00Another tidbit from Self-Editing for Fiction Write...Another tidbit from Self-Editing for Fiction Writers about speaker attributions: "The reason those well-intentioned attempts at variety don't work is that verbs other than "said" tend to draw attention away from the dialogue."Theresa Raganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15815320170046221853noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18101458.post-83652708898686680652007-10-29T21:53:00.000-05:002007-10-29T21:53:00.000-05:00So. is it best to use a mixture of direct "he said...So. is it best to use a mixture of direct "he said" "she said" and action tags? I have actually received my best scores in contests on dialog, but I still like the idea of checking to make sure my men don't talk too much or use feminine language. My crit partner, Erin, has called me on it a couple of times, thank God, so I try to be a bit more aware of it now.Needless to say, Norah, this blog is going to be printed and join the other GH blogs! Question. How much is too much dialog? I love writing it and I am always afraid I am using it too much.dogladyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03392561174583932552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18101458.post-33496344726633087112007-10-29T20:56:00.000-05:002007-10-29T20:56:00.000-05:00Charity: Great idea to approach the Russian charac...Charity: Great idea to approach the Russian character's dialogue through syntax. If you have knowledge of the language, I think a little of that would carry you a long way, and lend terrific authenticity.<BR/><BR/>Theresa: Scary thought about editors scanning for a page of dialogue and making a judgment about the whole book. But I can see the logic of it. Poor dialogue will sink a story faster than anything else.<BR/><BR/>Barbara: Waving my hand! Thanks for dropping by. <BR/><BR/>Erin, thanks for the props. And your process sounds a lot like mine (write it, go back and work the action and tags, cut the boring stuff). LOL.<BR/><BR/>Diane, I'm so with you on the prohibition against using the "he said" tag AND also supplying an action tag. One or t'other, please. :-)Norah Wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01151103954061826427noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18101458.post-15387347113501012652007-10-29T20:44:00.000-05:002007-10-29T20:44:00.000-05:00Diane said:"Julia Quinn's workshop on dialogue is ...Diane said:<BR/>"Julia Quinn's workshop on dialogue is about the best I've heard on the subject...except maybe for Norah's!"<BR/><BR/>Aw, thanks, Diane! It's been fun. And it reminds me how much I love writing dialogue when I'm feeling the characters. Of course, there are times when making them say something remotely interesting or plot-moving is an exercise in torture. That's when I find myself typing dialogue like this: "Oh, yeah? Well you're only saying that because SHE can't think of anything better to put in your mouth." Yes, I do that. After my characters kick me around for a while, I usually get a grip on them again. ,-)Norah Wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01151103954061826427noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18101458.post-57067728417820563912007-10-29T19:13:00.000-05:002007-10-29T19:13:00.000-05:00I love writing dialogue---it's definitely one of t...I love writing dialogue---it's definitely one of the things that seems to flow off the page for me. For me, it's easier to read a book and get a truer sense of who the characters are by what they say and then what they think/do or vice versa. <BR/><BR/>Plus, when you have dialogue between characters that jump off the page(s)... it makes it so much fun to read.Elyssa Papahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01114769833125426437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18101458.post-16032192973645324422007-10-29T19:01:00.000-05:002007-10-29T19:01:00.000-05:00I don't seem to have trouble with making my man di...I don't seem to have trouble with making my man dialog manly but what I do seem to have trouble with are those tags. I guess it's another example of showing and not telling.<BR/><BR/>I was introduced to the Gender Genie over at Bookblog site by one of the Risky Regencies. It's a neat tool that using key words in dialog to determine if the speakers are male or female.<BR/><BR/>I also find that I am jot down bits of conversations that go on around me. As a people watcher (and retail is great for this) I get to 'hear' how things are said. I know that has helped me tremendously more for female dialog than for male.<BR/><BR/>That sounds a little strange doesn't it?Santahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09770231939962704822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18101458.post-66784770894543296492007-10-29T17:45:00.000-05:002007-10-29T17:45:00.000-05:00Dialogue is my worst language! Once, again, I am l...Dialogue is my worst language! Once, again, I am learning so much from this blog! The best advice I ever got about my dialogue is to read it out loud to myself. Doing that has helped me more than I would have thought. I've read books on dialogue, and taken classes, and I've worked on paying attention to how people speak to each other. When I first started writing I thought I was good at dialogue, but now I can see that everyone talked the way I talked, even if they were saying things I wouldn't say in that given situation. I am guilty of making my men talk too much. If there is a top ten list of talking boo-boos, I've made them all!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18101458.post-4127004229771621192007-10-29T17:00:00.000-05:002007-10-29T17:00:00.000-05:00Oh, that's another thing, Beverley! When children ...Oh, that's another thing, Beverley! When children either sound too young or too old. But I know that is hard to do. I look on Child Development websites to refresh my memory. <BR/><BR/>Esri, my regency rakes would not say, "You dress is lovely, ma'am, especially the delicate lace flounce. Is it made of tulle or net?Diane Gastonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14770373530197339170noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18101458.post-9456438080582877732007-10-29T15:50:00.000-05:002007-10-29T15:50:00.000-05:00Oh, I have another thing. What about writing dial...Oh, I have another thing. What about writing dialogue for a toddler. When I read books with children that age, I find they sound so mature for their age. Does anyone come across that when they read? (Or perhaps it just my choice of books :) )Beverley Kendallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09175915580179121447noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18101458.post-87355084284606256232007-10-29T15:47:00.000-05:002007-10-29T15:47:00.000-05:00Diane, thank goodness!!! I thought I was the only ...Diane, thank goodness!!! I thought I was the only one. If I had been the one inventing languages and dialects, I would have done something a tad different. 'ken' seemed more of a can to me.Beverley Kendallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09175915580179121447noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18101458.post-75939688021460912392007-10-29T15:17:00.000-05:002007-10-29T15:17:00.000-05:00Swearing: I'm a casual swearer, and my characters ...Swearing: I'm a casual swearer, and my characters tend to be as well, but I have taken 99% of it out of a GH entry, so as not to alienate a potential judge. If the curse word was really appropriate for a strong emotional reaction, I left that in. "Dang!" just doesn't cut it. I think I have changed "f*@k" to "sh@t) for a GH entry though, to tone it down. Once you're dealing exclusively with editors, it doesn't matter so much. They'll just consider it part of your voice.<BR/><BR/>As for making characters sound different, I recently found a handy cheat. I have a friend from Brooklyn, and she has a pretty distinct way of speaking. I made my hero from the same place, and imagine him using her voice. Voila! Automatic difference in tone.<BR/><BR/>Diane: As someone who hangs out with geeks, I have never run across a word the guys of my acquaintance wouldn't say. ;) It's all in the context, baby.Esri Rosehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00912657945785764363noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18101458.post-15446950066631921052007-10-29T14:46:00.000-05:002007-10-29T14:46:00.000-05:00Oh. I forgot another thing. My Mills & Boon editor...Oh. I forgot another thing. My Mills & Boon editors (from the UK) only allow me a minimum of dialect in my books. And even when I think I've been sparing with dialect, they cut most of it out. I'm allowed a couple of "Ye's" and that is about it!<BR/><BR/>Beverley, It took me forever to figure out what "ken" meant, too!Diane Gastonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14770373530197339170noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18101458.post-2296915141471589402007-10-29T14:43:00.000-05:002007-10-29T14:43:00.000-05:00This is great stuff! That was a great job of showi...This is great stuff! That was a great job of showing character through dialogue, Norah. And masterful job of writing boring dialogue, Theresa :-)<BR/><BR/>My pet dialogue peeves:<BR/>(Like Norah said) Men who use too many words or who say words men would not say. You know, girly words. Can't think of any examples at the moment, though...<BR/><BR/>Using "he said" or "she said" when an action tag would do. <BR/><BR/>NOT "Whew!" he said, as perspiration dampened his brow.<BR/>BUT THIS: "Whew!" Perspiration dampened his brow.<BR/><BR/>Julia Quinn's workshop on dialogue is about the best I've heard on the subject...except maybe for Norah's!Diane Gastonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14770373530197339170noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18101458.post-70912758841465449932007-10-29T14:30:00.000-05:002007-10-29T14:30:00.000-05:00Good advice, Erin. Reading the pages aloud can re...Good advice, Erin. Reading the pages aloud can really improve a manuscript in so many ways. Charity mentioned readplease.com on a previous blog and I have been using it. You just cut and paste a scene into the free download and pick a voice to read it back to you! You can speed it up or slow it down. There's a guy with a cool british accent that you can use to read it back. It's fun to use.Theresa Raganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15815320170046221853noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18101458.post-76865036237084297272007-10-29T14:27:00.000-05:002007-10-29T14:27:00.000-05:00Re: dialect and accents I had a Russian character ...Re: dialect and accents <BR/><BR/>I had a Russian character in my GH finals manuscript. What I did was use syntax. Of course, it helped that I majored in Russian language in college and had listened to several native Russians speak English. <BR/><BR/>I always thought dialogue itself was like a foreign language. It’s not speech verbatim, with all the <I>uhs</I>, and <I>ems</I>, and <I>likes</I>, and so on. It’s not grammatically perfect sentences. It’s more along the lines of how we remember a clever conversation, or the snappy comeback we think up hours later. <BR/><BR/>The great thing about writing is, you get all those hours to think up that snappy comeback.Charity Tahmasebhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14208740898666710699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18101458.post-72521384947931586422007-10-29T14:19:00.000-05:002007-10-29T14:19:00.000-05:00Thanks for the great words, Norah. I have tried to...Thanks for the great words, Norah. I have tried to explain the character description in POV before to a crit partner but not successfully. Now I have a resource to point her to!<BR/><BR/>As for writing dialogue, I go with the flow, writing everything including names and boring stuff. Once it's written, I go back and add character gestures, tags, and IM and strip out the boring stuff and all of the name tags that I leave in. I usually add more dialogue too to make sure everything makes sense. <BR/><BR/>I find it helpful to read it aloud to make sure it sounds the way someone would talk.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00069171305841643184noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18101458.post-4197287747979928992007-10-29T14:17:00.001-05:002007-10-29T14:17:00.001-05:00Fantastic advice. I know what I'm going to reread...Fantastic advice. I know what I'm going to reread when it's time to edit my work.<BR/>Barbara Phinney<BR/>Love Inspired author.Mystery and Mayhemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03977251231944347672noreply@blogger.com