That annoying dead guy
Today, we're lucky to have author Jeanne Adams hanging out with us here at the Wet Noodle Posse. She's an expert in...wait for it...body disposal. If you've got some dead characters in your books, she's here to give you some ideas for where to go to figure out how to actually get rid of those characters' bodies.I’m going to blog visit today with pure 100% controversy. I’m going to talk about how annoying a dead guy can be. (Warning! Explicit discussion of the aforementioned dead guy and how to get rid of his body…)
So, tell me, have you ever had an annoying dead guy hanging around in one of YOUR stories? You know the one. He’s important, at least at first, but you really don’t want to focus on him. You really just want him or his rather messy demise to draw your hero and heroine together. But he just keeps hanging around. AAnnoyyyyying.
Now some of you are smiling because you write romantic suspense or contemporaries and you’ve done this. Killed off a “red shirt” character in order to tangle up the H/H and get that story going with a bang. Others are looking at the screen thinking, “This woman’s nuts, there’s no annoying dead guy in MY books.” (Still others are snickering in true feministic fashion thinking, “But what if it’s a dead WOMAN?”)Yeah, yeah yeah. Well, whichever gender, and however you killed them off, you the author get to figure out how to dispose of a body. I was in the funeral biz for about 13 years. It was really interesting, if you’re into that stuff, and morbidly fascinating even if you’re not. Using that knowledge, I offer a class to writers on how to get rid of the dead guy or gal.
Why, you might ask? Because I’ve read it done so badly, so carelessly that I’ve shut the book and never bought that author again. You’re my friends over here at WNP. I want your sales to soar, I’m thinking NYT. So…I’d like to help you get rid of the body.I am aware that here in the first part of the 21st century, there are grown people out there in reader and writer land who’ve never even been to a funeral. Either their grandparents died long ago and they were too young to go, or everyone’s hale and hearty. Lucky you, if the latter is the case. Hard to know what goes on behind those quiet doors and walls if you’ve never been there.
On the other hand, you might have been involved in the planning of a funeral or two, but never had to deal with the kind of mortal end you dealt to that unfortunate character. Let’s call him Red, shall we? (Rude to keep calling him Annoying, don’t you think?) So, here you are ready to kill Red off and you’ve done your homework on the forensics and are pretty sure you can burn Red up in a fire and destroy the evidence you need to make the story work. Yeah, but what about Red? Hmmmm? What do you do with the crispy critter he’s become?
Or it’s Ol’ Grandpa who kicked the bucket, left the heroine a bazillion dollars as long as she marries the hero. All this comes out at the funeral. Ahhhhh, but if Grandpa died under suspicious circumstances, you can’t just jump from dead guy to funeral. Or, if you live in Canada, Alaska, Wyoming, Maine or points north, you may have to wait months (until spring thaw) to actually BURY Grandpa. Did you know that?
So do you need to know how to get rid of Red? Believe me, he has special needs. Ha! Have you called your local funeral director? Or e-mailed me? (Click, click, nope, you didn’t e-mail me! Sob!) Do you have an area of expertise that makes you wince at mistakes in books you read? (Any doctors or nurses out there who hate ER?) And last but not least, do any of you historical writers know the origin of the euphemism about dying, delicately referencing the dead guy as having “stuck his spoon in the wall”?Since I’m celebrating the upcoming release of my debut novel, Dark and Dangrous (June 1, 2008!), I’m giving stuff away. I’ve got a Dark and Dangerous Beach Read Prize for one random commenter and a copy of the book and some Godiva for whoever can tell me about that dratted spoon euphemism. Oh, and thanks to the fabulous WNP for allowing me to come speak of the dead. Grins.
Okay, do you have questions about how to dispose of one of your departed characters? Here's your chance to ask the expert. And be sure to check out Jeanne's Web site where you can find out more about her and her debut release.
Labels: Guest Blogger
posted by Trish Milburn @ 12:01 AM
51 Comments:
Hi, Jeanne! What fun to see you here at the WNP. (Jeanne and I are WRW buddies)
I am not killing off any characters in my wip, but in The Marriage Bargain, at the beginning of the book, I did have two gentlemen hastily put their friend (the hero) in a crude wooden coffin. I spent AGES researching 18th or 19th century mausoleums to learn what the inside looked like. Finally I just had to make it up.
Maybe if your work in the funeral home was in, say, 1816, you could answer that question for me.
I'm curious, Jeanne, how long does it take to prepare a body once it comes into the funeral home? I'm amazed anyone can do that without totally wigging out. Do you have any interesting/creepy stories from your time as a funeral director?
OK - I'm laughing because I actually wrote a short story based on the 'dead red-shirt guy'. I don't know if it'll get published, but it was fun. Yes, I was a huge ST fan.
This post made me think of the questions romance (especially erotica) writers get asked all the time, based on the assumption that if we're writing about sex, we must have plenty of first-hand knowledge.
But does anyone ask if we've actually gone out and killed someone in the name of research?
Hi Diane! Well, I know some of the historical stuff. You'll note the dark horses and carriage on the post...but the inside of a mausoleum would stump me too for that year. Late 1800's I could help. Been to a few. In fact, the Bohemian National Cemetary in Chicago is fabulous. Looks like it should be a public building, not a mausoleum. :>
Hi Trish! Thanks for having me over today!
I was (alas) married to a funeral director. I got to do a lot of odd jobs around the place - hearse driver, anyone? - especially if there were several funerals at once. I did work for the cemetery for a while. :>
As for creepy stories, there are always those. Or the practical jokes. Funeral directors, like firemen and police officers have a bit of a dark sense of humor.
Like putting a tape recorder in the back of the transport van and having a long tape where there would be forty-five minutes of silence then someone saying, "Don't you think you should turn left here?" then nothing for another twenty minutes. Freaked the guy out. He just about killed the other FD who did it. Ha!
Oh, Trish, forgot to answer your other question about timing. The answer is...drum roll please...it depends. Heehee. How long was it before the person was found? How long was the body sitting? Has rigor mortis set in or passed? How bady damaged was the body from the auto accident/bridge collapse/trauma?
All of those will effect timing. On a "good" case (and believe me at 2 am you pray for the best case scenario) it takes about 1.5 to 2 hours to go from start to finish on the whole embalming process, if the person is of average size. Add another hour or two for dressing the body, makeup, hair dressing, putting the body in the casket, etc.
Hi Terry! Nice to see your smiling face over here at WNP as we sometimes see you on at the Romance Bandits.
Isn't the red shirt thing funny? I hope your short story does get published. That would be a fun read, I know.
No, no one's ever asked me about killing someone, but they've asked me a lot about whether I've touched a body, gone on a pick up, seen decomposition, etc. With the latter, you smell it first. Ugh. And yes, BTW, I've done all those.
Hi, Jeanne -- I hang here quite a bit.
Don't talk about decomp. DH was a founding member of the Southeast marine mammal stranding network and I don't think anything smells worse than a whale or manatee that's been cooking in the sun for a few days.
Jeanne, great post! This suspense gal loves this kind of talk. LOL
Is this the answer to your question?
"It means he took up his long home, or died. In primitive times a leather strap was very often nailed to the wall, somewhere near the fireplace, and in this strap were stuck such things as scissors, spoons for daily use, pen-case, and so on."
Onto my question (please don't wince): If you wanted to get rid of the body, would a meat grinder really work to dispose of bones, etc.? How about that wood chipper a la Fargo?
Bleeech, no kidding Terry. And human is worse. (Sorry, everyone!) I'll try to keep the disgusting stuff off loop. Grins.
Jeanne, great post! This suspense gal loves this kind of talk. LOL
Is this the answer to your question?
"It means he took up his long home, or died. In primitive times a leather strap was very often nailed to the wall, somewhere near the fireplace, and in this strap were stuck such things as scissors, spoons for daily use, pen-case, and so on."
Onto my question (please don't wince): If you wanted to get rid of the body, would a meat grinder really work to dispose of bones, etc.? How about that wood chipper a la Fargo?
Ahhhh, Kim! A possibility! So then sticking the spoon in the wall, vs. putting it back in the case means, well, he's done with it? No soup, oh, for two millenia or so? Grins.
An industrial meat grinder would do it, given that it's for beef, but they usually don't grind the bones. However, human bones are much smaller and more friable, so yep. But industrial size. Big grinder.
Wood chipper will do it too. Thing is, it's bigger pieces when you do a wood chipper and the smaller things, like teeth, fingers, etc, tend to stay intact leading to arrest and so on. :>
Why would I wince? (Although some of our readers might) There was a case a few years ago with the wood chipper. It was the teeth that led to the husband being caught. Although they never found the body, I believe they found his prints and her blood on the chipper, and found some teeth. Those are too small for a chipper to chip, so to speak.
By the way, for our historical writers, it was SO much easier to get away with murder back in the day...but people do still get away with it today. :>
OMG about the tape. I would seriously wreck the hearse.
Heehee, Trish. He nearly did. The only thing that saved him, he said, was that he recognized the voice. If the other guy had been smart enough to get his roomie to record...wreck!
Hilarious post, Jeanne. I'm still snorting chocolate onto my monitor. It's great to see another Bandita popping up at WNP.
Hmmm, I'm still wondering about crispy critter Red. What DOES happen to him?
I've never heard that spoon euphemism and I'm of an age you'd think I'd heard them all.
My most disliked (and a VERY common one) is "passed." Uncle George passed yesterday. I always imagine Uncle George in a game of poker -- pass, fold, raise?
Hey Jeanne! I'm giggling over your post and trying to figure out how someone who looks as sweet as you can be into such a, well, oooky hobby LOL. Goes to show what a pansy I am, I'm trying to think of a body disposal type quesiton and keep going "Ick".
Except the spoon in the wall thing, I really want to see the answer to that.
So, I'll ask this instead - how convenient do you find your dead stuff knowlege in your writing? How have you integrated it into your stories, and especially into your debut: Dark and Dangerous?
Hi, Jeanne--
Isn't your book due in stores any minute? I have to go out today, and I'm going to look, just in case.
About body disposal, though--are there more options, historically speaking, in winter or summer? Does it matter in which region you live?
Diane, I hate that feeling of looking and looking and looking without success. You have my sympathy!
Terry, your short story about "dead red shirt guy" sounds like it would be fun. We Star Trek fans tend to feel for the guy in the red shirt--represented by the great character of Guy in Galaxy Quest. I hope you place it!
KJ, that sounds really intriguing. Just the sort of obscure fact I love.
"It originally meant "took up residence," from the fact that in primitive times a leather strap was often nailed to the wall near the fireplace as a place to keep items like spoons. It eventually came to mean "die," presumably from taking up permanent residence in the afterlife."
Of course I always assumed it meant that you were done with the spoon. And if you were the miserly type you would stick your spoon in the wall so nobody else could use it! LOL
Great post, Jeanne! I realize it is very true that murder in the Regency (the period about which I write) was an easier thing to pull off! I am curious as to when the study of forensics actually started. I have a character who was strangled to death, but her death is made to look like a suicide - a deliberate laudanum overdose. Would the average country doctor notice things like the blood spots in the eyes or the marks on the throat. Are there always marks on the throat?
I worked in a funeral home as an office manager for a while and it was always interesting. The guys had really quirky senses of humor.
We were discussing how far a person would go for a friend i.e. would you help them dispose of the body if they had killed someone. One of the guests at this barbecue spoke up and said the most efficient way to dispose of a body was via alligator. He said they could digest ANYTHING! The scary thing? He actually owns an alligator farm in South Alabama.
Also, are there people who insist that their loved one have their own hairstylist do their hair? And what about shoes. My great aunt INSISTED that we make sure she had on shoes when she went to "meet Jesus." We made sure of it because she was mean enough in life, we sure didn't want her to come back and haunt us!
Hi Jo! Had to laugh about Red. Yep, poor Red. Well, handle with care is the watchword. It usually means closed casket (esp. in really bad burns) because of both the appearance and, alas, the smell. Sorry for those eating lunch. It also usually means a body bag and very little actual embalming because there's not much to embalm in the strictest sense if the author did a thorough job with the gasoline can. Lime for the odor. Body bag. Closed, sealer casket. (i.e. metal rather than wood.)
And LOL on the "passed" euphemism. My favorite was one I heard a preacher use: "He's gone from the church struggling, to the Church Triumphant!" It was quite a sight to behold as he said it, full of bold gestures and impressive intonation. :>
Hey Tawny! You're no pansy if you can write what you do....hot, hot, hot! :> That kind of heat wilts pansies. Grins.
So far the dead body knowledge has only helped in stories I've not sold yet. Yet... But it got me several speaking gigs at National and with other RWA chapters, so that's been great.
Alas, I didn't use it at all in Dark and Dangerous! :>
Hi Nancy! Great to see you! Dark and Dangerous is supposed to arrive in stores...today. :> Most of the booksellers are pretty strict about release date though, so it probably won't be on the shelf until June 1, it's official day. But if you see it, email me so I can act ridiculous, jump up and down and "Squeeeeeeeal!" like a 14-year-old. :>
Hi Pam! (aka Doglady) Well, I tell ya, the spoon thing. Would never have figured that. Did you and Kim google it or do you both have an obscure research tome? I tried googling it when I first read it but got nada. :>
It was harder to notice things like the hemoragging in the eyes back then, they often didn't pick up on it. I'd have to look forensics up, but it started pretty early, but didn't spread fast. Ha! With manual strangulation, it's obvious in most cases. The bruising. But you'll not in some of the CSI's and so forth that sometimes, on a more ruddy complexion, it doesn't show up until after death. "post-mortem bruising" and all that. A family member could notice it when washing and dressing the body, then call the doctor. Once that was an option to look for, the country doctor would look in the eyes and for other signs. Most of them were called upon to witness the death by hanging of criminals, so they would know to look if it was called to their attention. :> THat could be a cool red-herring (as opposed to a red shirt) to throw into the mix. Ha!
Two very effective disposal methods are alligators, crocodiles, pigs, and of course, sharks. Problem is, they frequently miss small bits - feet, hands, etc. which wash up on shore. Frankly pigs miss very, very little. But they leave the large bones.
Thankfully, nothing is entirely fool proof, but things like that come close. Esp. sharks and gators. Shudder.
Obviously math is not my strong suit. I named more than 2 natural disposal methods. Urk. Probably need some lunch. :>
I just toggled over to the Romance Bandits to see what was up over there and they're talking about throwing people out windows. Or at least P226 is. He went to a military academy. :> The topic is high school memories.
I've been working since high school to block them all out. Ha!
Well I'm not squeamish. Jeanne, how quickly does the skin start to shed off a dead body? And when the bowels and bladder evacuate at death, are we talking a huge mess? Like, it would definitely soak through all clothing?
I notice more suspense/mystery authors are starting to mention the latter, but most people seem to just ignore that issue.
I'd always heard, "Stick your fork in the wall." As for the strap, I assume it's nailed sideways, on either end, and the spoon is tucked into it?
Interesting stuff!
Jeanne, the wood chipper reminded me of an episode of Bones. Do you watch that? It's one of my favorite shows.
Hi Jeanne! Good to see you here!
Just a word on the spoon- don't take the "IN" the wall part too literally because language always changes over time. Prepositions change easily, and originally the statement could have been more like "on the wall". And likely there would have been some phrase or word that hinted at permanency. But once the phrase degenerated from its clever first usage to something more common, everyone would have known "forever" was what was meant. When the original context, the strap hanging on the cottage wall, disappeared from use, the phrase froze in its form, a referral not only to death but to its long history. Then of course it disappeared from regular use because its context had passed from memory for most people. So today it just sounds totally odd. But hundreds of years ago, someone was quite clever, clever enough that other people picked up his euphemism and carried it on.
Esri, come on and jump right in! ha! Again, the answer is the ever popular, it depends. The skin slip - technical term for it shedding from the body - can begin w/in 48 hours if it's hot, wet and the body is exposed to the elements. If it's hot, dry and desert like, the body can naturally mummify with the skin intact. Under "normal" out door conditions in a temperate climate, it can take a week or so, maybe longer depending on the temperature fluctuations. Inside, even longer for the same reason.
The body fluids do evacuate the body pretty quickly and it depends on whether the idividual is wearing Depends (har, har, couldn't resist) or if they've just gone to the bathroom before being conked on the head with an iron pipe. Sometimes it doesn't happen until rigor mortis passes.
I haven't seen anyone but Patricia Cornwell get that detailed though. :>
Trish, I do like Bones. I've liked that actor since he was on Buffy. :> Problem is, I've missed so many. Got to rent them so I can follow the threads of continuing story line.
Hey Delle! Great to see you! I thought it was a clever way to put it, but just could NOT fathom the origin. Most of 'em you can figure out - passed over to the heavenly realm becomes passed. Or Passed on to glory. I've heard that a lot. Expired. Yeah, like the milk, or your driver's lisence. Or "He's gone on." One of my favs is "He took the better road." Um...he's dead, did you know that? Most of these, however are references to walking with God or being in a "better place" than this difficult existence and so forth. You get it, pretty much.
But sticking your spoon in the wall? The visual doesn't get me anywhere near death and dying. *big grin*
Jeanne, you're such a smiley person to have all this experience in disposing of dead bodies! Love the explanations for the spoon in the wall. Can't wait for Dark and Dangerous!!!!
OMG Jeanne - I'm still ROFL at your post and the follow-up comments ... and there's a thunderstorm outside as the perfect accompaniment!
I cannot imagine you married to a funeral director! Somehow though, I can see you putting that tape in the hearse.
What's the most original method you've heard of for disposing of a body?
Hi Anna C and Anna S! Thanks for stopping in!
It's the smiley one's you have to worry about, didn't you know that Anna C? :> Bwah-ha-ha!
And now, I can't imagine me being married to a funeral director either, thank goodness! Snicker. I like Marriage 2.0 SOOOOOO much better.
The jokes are pretty good though. My 2.0 DH is an accountant and their jokes just aren't that...well...funny. Snork. But Funeral jokes..
Why do they put fences around cemeteries?
wait for it....
People are just dying too get in!
Most unusual way of disposing of a body...hmmmm. Legally? Shooting it into space. I mean, why? So Uncle Mort can be space junk for all time?
Illegally? The wood chipper thing was pretty innovative. I read about someone trying to put a body in a museum, in a sarcophagus. They didn't succeed, but can you imagine trying to figure out where Aunt Maude went? Esp. if she wasn't a museum goer.
I have a number of Regency slang lexicons, Jeanne, and I often read them for the simple entertainment they supply!
Another of my favorites :
"I am not quite ready to be put to bed with a spade (or shovel) just yet, my dear!"
And thanks for the info re my strangulation victim. Filing that bit of information away for future reference!
I'll bet those lexicon's DO make fascinating reading. :> I have a calendar of Unusual English, much of which stems from England and it's vernacular sayings. Some of it is hysterical, but others they just don't explain significantly. :>
Jeanne, Doglady's comment about people insisting on a certain hairstylist put me in mind of the movie "Walking Across Egypt". Ellen Burstyn's character routinely pulls out her "funeral outfit" (including shoes) and critiques it. I suppose if you're going to be prepared at any time, you must keep your outfit current. *g*
Jeanne, is there any writer you can name who consistently does excellent body disposal?
Trish, as to how someone could work on a cadaver without wigging, I don't think it would be too hard. It's like dissection in Biology class. Once you make the initial cut, the clinical detachment sets in and it's much easier. I would have been a great surgeon!
Hi Caren!! I bet you would have made a great surgeon. :> I think a lot of authors just avoid it, rather than try and get the details right. Most, like Lisa Gardner, Allison Brennan and Brenda Novak deal more with the crime and what's done to the person and the body than what's done after. :> A lot of author's do that.
Its the ones who get it blatently wrong - Uncle Joe keels over at Sunday dinner even tho' he's just been passed through his annual physical with flying colors, the police are called and its suspicous, and they have the funeral already to go on Monday.
Ummmmm, no. Using a funeral is great to mess up your characters, given them all sorts of reasons to question each other, but you just cannot do it in 12 hours. Not if the death's suspicious. :>
Its actually the BAD ones I notice rather than the good, can you tell? :>
Hi Jeanne!
Loved the post. Don't need to get rid of any dead guys for the next book but maybe the one after that. And for anyone who gets the chance to hear Jeanne do her workshop, it's fantastic and really interesting.
The first book I ever wrote started with a mental health social worker (snort! write what you know, eh?)discovering her favorite client dead of apparent suicide. The homicide detective believed her. He was a cool hero. Someday I should see if that book could sell.
LOL Jeanne - if it's any consolation - my hubby mark II is a huge improvement too.
Caren - oooh that movie mention reminds me of one of my favourite books - Rhonda Nelson's The Future Widows Club. Such a fun read. I can't help thinking it's a waste of good shoes to be buried, or worse, burned with them!
Great blog, Jeanne! You are full of wonderfully macabre information - I love it!
*ggg*
As far as TV shows or movies go, which ones have you seen that come the closest to getting it 'right'?
I can't wait for Dark and Dangerous to come out! I'm counting down the days :-)
Hi Christie! Thanks for the plug on the workshop. :> *the check is in the mail*
I hope you'll give a holler when you need the shovel...er, some info.
Ooh, Diane, that sounds like a cool book. Contemporary, I presume since women weren't allowed to be social workers in the dark Regency days...
Anna S. I'm writing down the name of that book - the future widows club - the title alone is enough to make it interesting. And LOL on the shoes. Some people are very superstitious about these things. One poor lady came back to us about five years after her late husband's funeral, so worried because she hadn't checked to be SURE we'd put his vestments on correctly. (He was a minister and there's a certain way to do it when they've died.)
Hi Beth! I can't wait for yours either, Beth! Beth and I are both debut June releases. Counting the days...
As to those who got it "right" Six Feet Under got most of the tech stuff right, but aaaargh on all the ghosts and personal stuff and addictions. Yikes! Believe it or not, Quincy, ME that old show with Jack Klugman got it right. They used to rerun that and we'd watch it at night at the Funeral Home and laugh about the stories. Some of the autopsy stuff was wwaaaaaay off, but the time they featured the funeral stuff, it was right. The soaps usually get it waaaaay wrong too. The constricted time frame of TV makes it necessary to fudge the time frames, I guess.
Hi Jeanne! Thanks for coming today and sharing such fascinating info about how to get rid of a dead body! This is great and your post is too funny.
Can't wait to read your book. Congratulations!
Hi Theresa! So glad to see you. I've had so much fun over here with the Posse. Of course, knowing some WNPers helps, as does having an veritable invasion of Romance Bandits to come hang out.
I'm so glad to finally know the origin of that goofy euphemism. Jeeez. Didn't realize how much that had bugged me! HEehee
Caren, you obviously didn't see me grossing out in biology class. Shudder. I'm squeamish.
Thanks for hanging out with us today, Jeanne. And thanks to everyone for the comments and questions.
Hiya, Jeanne! What a great post, though I must say I stopped reading the comments when I got to 'industrial meat grinder'.LOL Don't think I have the stomach to be a romantic suspense writer. And sad to say I don't know the spoon in the wall reference either, though I know what it means. Shucks! No Godivas for me. ::pout::
Hi Noodlers! Hi Diane! Thanks for having the amazing Jeanne on today. Can't wait for Dark and Dangerous, Jeanne! Not long now!
LOL Christine! I'm glad you came by. Thanks for having me blog today ladies! I enjoyed the heck out of it. :>
Post a Comment
<< Home
Subscribe to Post Comments [Atom]